[On Demand Webinar] Making Strategic Decisions in Times of Crisis – Complete Recording

About the Speakers

Deanna Siegel Senior | Executive Transition and Authentic Leadership

Dr. Deanna Siegel Senior is a certified executive coach who specializes in executive transitions and helping leaders inspire their teams through authentic leadership and radical candor. Drawing upon twenty years of business experience, Deanna has built a reputation as a pragmatist; zeroing in on the leadership actions that will  yield the greatest individual, team, and organizational impact.

Iris Nafshi | Leadership and Executive Development

Iris Nafshi has extensive experience in leadership and executive development spanning the bio-pharma, technology, and packaged food industries. As an executive coach, Iris brings this experience to bear helping leaders unlock their potential by addressing their development opportunities within the context of the organization’s strategy and business environment.

Jamie Ramsden | C-Suite Advisory and Strategic Thinking

Jamie Ramsden brings 20 years of international business experience to AIIR, including five years as a Chief Executive, where he created significant and sustained business results through intense customer focus, disciplined processes, and highly-engaged teams. He has been an executive coach for ten years, with clients in the UK, Europe, Americas, Africa, and Asia.

Tonushree Mondal | Strategy and Organizational Effectiveness

Tonushree Mondal brings to AIIR over two decades of global experience working with senior leadership teams to improve organizational effectiveness. She is a recognized strategic partner providing practical, business-relevant HR solutions across industry segments and geographies. Prior to her career as an executive coach, Tonushree was the SVP/ Head of Talent at the Hudson’s Bay Company.

 

About the Moderator

Jonathan Kirschner | Founder and CEO of AIIR Consulting

Dr. Jonathan Kirschner is the Founder and CEO of AIIR Consulting. He is also an experienced executive coach. As an executive coach and business psychologist, Jonathan’s areas of expertise are in strategic thinking, bolstering team leadership skills, cultivating emotional intelligence, managing stress, and increasing influence. He coaches senior leaders across a tremendous range of sectors.

Complete Audio Transcript

The following is an automatically generated transcript from Zoom and may contain errors. It is provided for your convenience.

Jonathan Kirschner: Well, good morning, good afternoon, good evening to all those of you who are joining us around the world. Welcome to our webinar today.

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Jonathan Kirschner: My name is Jonathan Kirshner. I’m the founder and CEO of air consulting. I’m here in Philadelphia and we have the pleasure of having four of my amazing air colleagues with us to discuss an incredibly important topic, making strategic decisions during this unprecedented time

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Jonathan Kirschner: We have leaders joining this call from around the world. And I’d love it if you would just simply type your name and location in the chat, along with

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Jonathan Kirschner: One learning objective that you may have for today. And if you could type that into the chat. That’ll give us a sense of all the great people on this call and feel free to do that now.

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Jonathan Kirschner: All right, while you’re doing that, I’m going to tee up this webinar and, you know, over the past two months we’ve obviously experienced a level of physical, psychological and economic devastation that is created for most humans on this call.

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Jonathan Kirschner: overwhelming fear, uncertainty and confusion.

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Jonathan Kirschner: With light beginning to emerge at the end of the tunnel. We as leaders now have an opportunity to cut through the fog of war and really start to engage in some rigorous strategic thinking and some strategic decision making.

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Jonathan Kirschner: Today we’re going to focus on three phases of our unprecedented times and then examine the strategic decisions that we have an opportunity to make

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Jonathan Kirschner: We can think of the first phase as right now, we can think of this as the great battle, if you will, for many of us. This is the battle for survival.

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Jonathan Kirschner: In this phase, we need to be extremely near term focus amidst grave uncertainty, while also trying to see through the fog of war and be strategic about how we reposition for the future.

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Jonathan Kirschner: The second phase is we can call strategic adaptation in a few weeks. Many of us will start to slowly return back to the workplace economy is going to start to thaw. How are we going to adapt ourselves to the new constraints and opportunities during the strategic adaptation period.

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Jonathan Kirschner: And then the third phase is what we can think of as regeneration.

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Jonathan Kirschner: Think 90 days from now.

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Jonathan Kirschner: How can we boldly author, the future of our work and our lifestyles, so that it reflects what we’ve learned throughout this period, as well as our chosen I underscore chosen values.

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Jonathan Kirschner: With that said, we have four of our top executive coaches and consultants on this call here to share with us insights and I would love for them to introduce themselves. So perhaps we can start with Jamie, who is in Princeton, Jamie.

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Jamie Ramsden: Thank you, Jonathan, and thank you for allowing me to be on this panel. My name is Danny ransom. I’m a senior partner or consulting

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Jamie Ramsden: I was previously formerly a Chief Exec at a medium sized business in manufacturing in the automotive industry where we executed on a turnaround. We were award winning supplier to some household names from household name clients. I’ve been an executive coach now for 15 years

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Jamie Ramsden: Focusing specializing in strategy and C suite advisory just really excited to be here today. Thank you.

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Jonathan Kirschner: Thank you Jamie

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Jonathan Kirschner: Perhaps a new story. Would you mind introducing yourself.

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Tonushree Mondal: Sure. Thanks. Thanks for the opportunity to be here. My name is to new Sri mondal definitely gets easier as you say it.

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Tonushree Mondal: I’ve been an organizational effectiveness consultant and coach pretty much my entire career and helped organizations well from kind of a small startup to large global organizations.

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Tonushree Mondal: In helping them improve from an aspect when you look at the organization when it comes to culture talent processes structure.

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Tonushree Mondal: Or on a team and individual coaching basis how to really engage them and make them more effectiveness started working

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Tonushree Mondal: And lived and worked in both Asia and North America over the span of my career worked with a big consulting firm for 15 years the last five years have been partnering with air and

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Tonushree Mondal: really helping to understand as we get through the situation observing what my clients are facing learning from each other and sharing as they go through the journey so happy to be here.

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Jonathan Kirschner: Thank you, Tina SRI. Great to have you on this call Deanna

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Jonathan Kirschner: Thank you can share a bit about yourself.

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Deanna Senior: Hi, Jonathan. Thank you. So glad to be here.

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Deanna Senior: My name is Deanna seagulls senior I am an executive coach proud to be a part of the air consulting group.

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Deanna Senior: And I’ve been a head of talent at organizations such as Tiffany and Company and WW formerly known as Weight Watchers for you know most of my 20 plus year career.

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Deanna Senior: And have a passion for organizational level strategic thinking team effectiveness and have done quite a bit of work on that front as an internal consultant

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Deanna Senior: And on the individual level as an executive coach. I’m really glad to be here and focusing on this important issue of strategic decision making. During you know this.

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Deanna Senior: Interesting unprecedented time for those of us who, you know, are dealing with challenges at home. I’m also a mom of three. So, you know, if we get a cameo on the call. I’ll shoot them out as quickly as possible, but really glad to be here. Thanks so much, Jonathan.

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Jonathan Kirschner: Thank you. Deanna awesome Iris

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Iris Nafshi: I everyone was I was not she and I’m located close to the air consulting office in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania.

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Iris Nafshi: If you can hear from my accent I wasn’t born in the United States. I originally come from Israel and we moved here 23 years ago to my husband and I to study and then we stayed

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Iris Nafshi: My career spanned across multiple industries working as an organizational psychologist in the army.

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Iris Nafshi: Pharmaceutical Industry technology at Microsoft, and then consumer goods. About two years ago I decided to go on my own and try to do things that I’m passionate about and I really enjoy designing and facilitating the workforce.

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Iris Nafshi: dreaming big and executing on what seems different and achievable in their world of leadership development and of course coaching leaders and like everyone else. I’m happy to be here today also have four kids at home that I’ve been not to come into the room. So hopefully that’s

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Jonathan Kirschner: Fantastic Iris is great to have you on this call. And we also have

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Jonathan Kirschner: Robin Garrett, who’s our chief customer officer and she’ll be joining us coming back.

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Jonathan Kirschner: A little bit later on.

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Jonathan Kirschner: The call to take some Q AMP. A for you. So as we’re

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Jonathan Kirschner: progressing through this panel please do take notes and make note of any questions you may have for our panelists. I’m going to kick us off with our first question. And we think of that sort of phase.

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Jonathan Kirschner: Structure which, of course, that’s what we do. As humans, we like to be in control. So we create phases and and think that we’ve got it all set. So everything I said right now. May you know be completely

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Jonathan Kirschner: turned on its head tomorrow. But to the extent that we have some predictability.

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Jonathan Kirschner: I think we all know that right now in this medium term, we are we are struggling, we are faced with immediate

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Jonathan Kirschner: decisions and actions and it’s easy to quickly get into a reactive mindset, which of course is the polar polarity to strategic mindset strategic thinking. And so the first question I have is, is really, I want to ask you. Deanna

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Jonathan Kirschner: Amidst all this turbulence. What can we do as leaders as people to stay grounded.

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Deanna Senior: Yeah, thanks. Jonathan, I think we’re all wondering that ourselves. And it’s kind of a unique question.

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Deanna Senior: That we each have to take into our own you know self perception, our own values right and people sort of go to their natural inclinations their base instincts. We do a lot of work with Hogan at air and we all sort of, you know, go into the

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Deanna Senior: The dark sides of our personality during times of stress or boredom, as we know.

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Deanna Senior: So getting grounded. I mean, it’s such a great question. I think there are great examples out there of people who are

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Deanna Senior: Finding their base values and bringing them to the fore through communication and, you know, just being even more present. So an example that I can think of is

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Deanna Senior: Just send a Darren Prime Minister of New Zealand, who is doing an incredible job right now.

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Deanna Senior: Literally connecting with her country from home and the world through YouTube, so we get to watch her too.

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Deanna Senior: She brings up dates. She’s really talking about how you know she is dealing with the crisis in her home own home with her own children.

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Deanna Senior: How she’s you know managing through so she’s staying grounded by connecting with those around her and another great example. You know that we’ve talked about all of the panelists prior to this is

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Deanna Senior: You know, something that that was a really interesting part of Obama’s presidency. Do you guys remember the 10 led

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Deanna Senior: 10 letters a day. It was a Times article back in. I think it was like 2016 or so.

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Deanna Senior: Around how he read 10 letters from the from you know the the front lines every day. And I think us staying grounded in our own

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Deanna Senior: Sort of knowing what the front lines are experiencing, whether that’s, you know, our nurse spouse who comes into our household and tell us tells us all about our day.

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Deanna Senior: All about their day or, you know, the members of our team who are dealing with, you know, homeschooling at home. So staying grounded, I think, is a unique experience and all about you know what works for you and staying connected to others through this time.

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Jonathan Kirschner: Thanks Deanna that’s, that’s true. I mean it’s amazing to see some of the leaders that are emerging that you know some of us haven’t even heard of before. And all of a sudden, they’re coming to the to the shining to into the spotlight.

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Jonathan Kirschner: And so, thank you. I think that’s reflecting on a call yesterday where one of my colleagues Dave gloss were on a leadership team meeting. And he’s like,

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Jonathan Kirschner: Jonathan you’re exhibiting your stress behaviors, because we also take Berkman assessment and Hogan assessments, I say, you know what, Dave. I’ve been exhibiting my stress papers for 10 years

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Jonathan Kirschner: But now to the his point you know and and to the greater point it’s it’s really awesome to have colleagues who can share her candid feedback. During this time, and that’s something that I’ve been as a leader, asking my team. Hey, like

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Jonathan Kirschner: This is tough. We’re all in this boat together. If you’re noticing that I’m being too reactive and and demonstrating too much of my stress be Ricky, you know, please let me know. Please let me know and that’s been been quite supportive and and welcome.

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Jonathan Kirschner: You know, I’m curious, Iris from, from your perspective, given that we’re all in this same boat and and experiencing so much stress.

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Jonathan Kirschner: How do we think about making strategic decisions right now while we’re still, you know, very much in the thick of it.

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Iris Nafshi: And another great question and

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Iris Nafshi: There’s a decision making model that I like to work with by David Snowden looking up there.

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Iris Nafshi: It’s called the Canadian decision model. It’s a word from Swedish, I think, and he really talks about not get to do it’s it’s a kind of a fluid for

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Iris Nafshi: Matrix that he talks about the simple colleague complicated and complex and right now we’re in the cosmic phase looking into getting a complexity and hopefully not getting into another chaos sometime around the wintertime, where they think the second wave

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Iris Nafshi: Will be coming. And so I wanted to leave with you a metaphor and three steps to go either. I’ve been working with my co cheese.

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Iris Nafshi: And and it’s been helpful seeing them and learning from them how they’re handling the situation right now and later.

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Iris Nafshi: strategic decision making. So maybe as we transition into more the complexity complexity. So in chaos. I want you to kind of try to close for a second and think about you holding a little child hand and you were about to have them cross

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Iris Nafshi: Cross world for the first time, I might be three might be to my before and it’s the first time. So there’s a line, but

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Iris Nafshi: Not if the our time these days. But usually, lots of, you know, noise and beeps of colors that are changing any scary. It’s called or someone who’s doing it for the first time.

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Iris Nafshi: And you can again, close your eyes for a second and think about what would be the three themes and him or her, you’re probably going to tell them, slow down, look sideways and go forward. And that’s really how I’ve been working with

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Iris Nafshi: My coaches these way and and seeing how they operate. Also, and learning from them on what works and what they owe.

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Iris Nafshi: Money. You need to stop and determine the scale of the depth and the pace. So what’s happening in your industry.

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Iris Nafshi: Mm hmm. And then based on that.

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Iris Nafshi: decide what’s next, which I’m going to talk about this a little bit later.

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Iris Nafshi: When you talk about and be careful when it’s long enough to slow too much because people are watching you to Jonathan’s point before sometimes that also can create stress for their organization if you sue matching that paralysis mode.

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Iris Nafshi: So you can ask for feedback and mice like too much am I rushing

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Iris Nafshi: But you will want to be

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Iris Nafshi: Slow down, and at the same time. And that’s the paradox and how difficult it is move in order to move you need to look sideways right to see industry is doing what competitors are doing what governments aren’t doing

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Iris Nafshi: And there’s a lot in the literature now about company used to be competitor actually collaborating right now, for example, pharmaceutical companies they put aside all rivalries and their CEOs of

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Iris Nafshi: Companies are getting on calls wants to talk about what are we going to do together to fight and find solutions. And so that’s really interesting to just look aside and then

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Iris Nafshi: I wasn’t looking forward. It’s just how do you what are ways for you to be able to move forward and energized and lift their organization as a leader, everyone is watching you and every move that you make.

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Iris Nafshi: You know, like the song.

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Iris Nafshi: Us. So how, with the help of a coach or mentor.

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Iris Nafshi: Keep yourself in check to stay authentic to yourself believes and at the same time step up to help everyone you know that even with gravity sometimes falling

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Iris Nafshi: Not help the organization, lift up. So that’s kind of my

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Iris Nafshi: Metaphor, and three steps. I would like to leave with you on what do we have you really make decisions. These days in chaos and later, we’re going to talk about decision making in complexity and complex situation there’s not going to be simple.

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Tonushree Mondal: And if I can just add, you know, Diana mentioned the dark side coming out and to stress this

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Tonushree Mondal: Idea important for leaders to also be vulnerable and take compartmentalize and be take out time for themselves and have that space because they’re trying to be supermom Superdad

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Tonushree Mondal: They’re trying to be the resilient leader. They’re trying to be everything on the face of it, but there’s something going on inside which is important to

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Tonushree Mondal: Which, if not handled is going to lead to the dark side coming out. So it’s more important to compartmentalize take time for oneself breathe and then move on being the superhero

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Jonathan Kirschner: So it’s a great point, industry and the vulnerability and

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Jonathan Kirschner: It’s, it’s amazing how many people’s children. I’ve met in the past month and a half.

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Jonathan Kirschner: And actually, I love it. I think it’s the, it’s the coolest thing. And when my kids come on the call. It’s, it’s just wonderful. It’s like we’re all humans. Right. And somehow we didn’t know that or didn’t attend to that.

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Jonathan Kirschner: Way that that where we are now.

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Jonathan Kirschner: And I just, I just love this this metaphor of slowing down look sideways move forward. It’s sort of like slow down and take a deep breath, assess the landscape and then take action and that’s really by by most definitions of strategy strategic decision making that is essentially

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Jonathan Kirschner: What we’re doing, and I think it’s really important in particular to do that slow down to speed up that take a deep breath air we

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Jonathan Kirschner: win this this pandemic really was just getting started, we said, you know, let’s let’s do something. Let’s lean into generosity was a concept that

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Jonathan Kirschner: We talked about as a community and something that that one of our coaches done so not really

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Jonathan Kirschner: Shared in one of our first webinars and let’s offer mindfulness, a free mindfulness session every day with a with a boss, one of our consultants at air.

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Jonathan Kirschner: And we thought, you know, maybe a few people will join us. Be nice. That’d be nice thing. It turns out this thing is like snowballing and it’s one of the most well attended and currently going on. So anybody who’s interested

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Jonathan Kirschner: Perhaps, Robin. You can share in the chat, how you can sign up for the mindfulness, but it by putting your mind at ease and tapping into the present. That is an opportunity to take that deep breath and and something that would would really support what you’re what you’re sharing is

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Jonathan Kirschner: Actually excellent team before we move on to sort of like this transition period. Anything else that we’d want to add or share

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Jamie Ramsden: Just voting on the back of what country, it said it the analogy I always like to use is the leader has to be like the Federal Reserve.

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Jamie Ramsden: That they have to have reserves of energy, right, rather than liquidity to to inject into an organization inject into the people who work for them. And so if you don’t have any reserves to tap into.

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Jamie Ramsden: Your team and your organization will suffer and so self care is really important in this time.

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Jonathan Kirschner: Excellent. Jamie actually what while you’re while you’re at it.

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Jamie Ramsden: Don’t have

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Jonathan Kirschner: A question for you, you know, as we start to think about moving back

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Jonathan Kirschner: And or moving forward.

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Jonathan Kirschner: How during that transition period, you know, how do you balance the tension between short term needs and long term needs and i think that’s that’s salient for right now as well.

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Jamie Ramsden: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So a lot of my clients have talked about this, the idea of

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Jamie Ramsden: The balancing between the people needs in the organization needs. Right. So the business needs are really around cash flow in this short short timeframe.

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Jamie Ramsden: Cash Flow is is oxygen. Right. And without it, your business dies and so balancing. How do we reserve cash or how do we get access to cash in the short term is is something that people are really being challenged with and it’s forced to very difficult decisions.

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Jamie Ramsden: What are the things I always say to clients is that the decisions you make in the in the good times will protect you in the bad ones. And I think that the inverse is also true, the decisions you make. Now both short term and long term can position you well.

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Jamie Ramsden: For for the next 510 years I think we need to acknowledge that

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Jamie Ramsden: This is a multi dimensional challenge. And so I think when when sometimes when we’re in crisis, we think, well, it’s just a health crisis and once that gets fixed everything will be okay.

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Jamie Ramsden: My experience of working through this. I’m helping other people work through this is that there are sharks in the system. Right. So if we think about an earthquake and an aftershock

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Jamie Ramsden: There are aftershocks in the system that we’re going to see that will play out over the next 369 months and that could be, you know, we talked about financial impact, but also legal right.

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Jamie Ramsden: So I’ve encouraged leaders to think about if you make people come back to work. Right. Is there a legal obligation.

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Jamie Ramsden: cyber attacks right as a system as a nation. Right now we are more prone to very much like individuals when your defenses are down, you’re more prone to different

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Jamie Ramsden: Types of shock and attack. And so there’s a legal this you know the possibilities of cyber attack there’s safety of your employees as you bring them back to work.

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Jamie Ramsden: There’s potentials for trade war right and so it’s just about understanding that it’s multi dimensional and appreciate him. This is a marathon, not a sprint because people in captivity over over time.

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Jamie Ramsden: And that, in a way, is what we’re talking about here. People in captivity, the ones who have the least amount of resilience. Those who think they have a fixed date.

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Jamie Ramsden: Or they have overly optimistic approach to to the end of this, and I think in the same way you train differently from a marathon and you would for a sprint. We have to be imagining or understanding that this is complex, it’s multi dimensional and it may last for a period of time.

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Jamie Ramsden: The opportunity that’s in there as we get into as the variable start to stabilize and we start to look forward the opportunity is how can we eliminate old systems, right, or old assumptions are all mindset. So processes that have gotten in the way

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Jamie Ramsden: That’s as we transition from short term to long term. How do you keep your head up for new opportunities. How do you gain momentum will create the conditions to gain momentum.

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Jamie Ramsden: And and doing that requires that you that you reengage will you engage with clients who know and value the work that you bring

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Jamie Ramsden: So that’s true for a lot of people, it’s sticking with the time to understand the value that you bring and we’ll make discretionary funds available.

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Jamie Ramsden: Those who was hunkered down and just trying to figure their own way through it. Not only is that not a productive use of your time. But it’s also possibly unwelcome

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Jamie Ramsden: And so, so getting the balance right. And just in terms of short term is about cash flow and it’s a mental shift towards preparing for a marathon, not a sprint.

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Jonathan Kirschner: But Jamie, I think that multi dimensionality is is particularly important because, I mean, if you, you look at analysts and different white papers and reports.

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Jonathan Kirschner: You know, people are talking about the curve. A you curve and L curve assignment.

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Jonathan Kirschner: All these different letters and and shapes.

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Jonathan Kirschner: For what the recovery might look like. And actually, it could be any of those, right. And so, you know, how do we scenario plan, manage and really keep an open mind. This is not a linear, you know, solving journey right

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Jamie Ramsden: Right. I mean, the average recession of the last hundred years has lasted 15 months. Right. And so I think we have to understand this is going to come like wave

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Jamie Ramsden: And we have to be prepared and that means getting good information. It means you know this is not a one and done right. If you’re budgeting, or if you’re setting up a plan. This is not a one and done it’s and it’s an iterative process.

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Jamie Ramsden: And so getting good information working closely with clients who valued you

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Jamie Ramsden: Keeping your teams engaged and ensuring that you have energy as a leader and that you’re prepared for the long term. That will help you balance the long and short term.

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Jonathan Kirschner: Jamie

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Jonathan Kirschner: I’m actually curious to Sri your former head of talent management and tons and tons of experience in addition to the coaching work you do tons of experience.

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Jonathan Kirschner: In the organizational effectiveness world. And there’s a number of chro those and talent management professionals on this call. I’m curious, what advice do you have for them. And really, the global workforce about managing through this instability during this time of strategic adaptation

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Jonathan Kirschner: What advice do you have for navigating it

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Tonushree Mondal: Thanks, and I’ll build on what Jamie was saying and the short of the long term because I think for everybody. There’s

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Tonushree Mondal: The goalposts shifting every day. So there’s this word phrase I use constant pivoting on the one hand, but there’s the long term mission purpose.

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Tonushree Mondal: So the way I’d like to segment. It is kind of the hard stuff, which is the business model, the structure, the workforce shape, size critical roles critical skills.

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Tonushree Mondal: And then the softer stuff which is your mindsets and your behaviors. So I’ll start with the software and move on to the harder stuff.

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Tonushree Mondal: I think if you look at the different surveys that have been done.

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Tonushree Mondal: managers and leaders have stepped up in the last two months on the softer side and showing empathy nimbleness innovation care. They have stepped up they’ve been there and employees are feeling it.

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Tonushree Mondal: The question there becomes. Now, how do you embed it when you have to make the tougher calls of what we did care for the safety of the security. But now, our business model has changed and now we have to do deeper cuts. How do you balance that empathy with the real

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Tonushree Mondal: Reality of they’re going to be without jobs and income for a period of time. So there’s a lot of tension, you have to manage that managing the

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Tonushree Mondal: Empathy with the tough decisions managing. Well, we want to innovate. But then we don’t have budgets, then you’re talking about collaboration, but your remote

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Tonushree Mondal: So that’s kind of the softer side on the harder side, it’s really about, okay, your business model may have either blown up completely or you’re

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Tonushree Mondal: Driving or you’re surviving. So what does that mean, not just in terms of who comes back to work.

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Tonushree Mondal: What capabilities, do you have for the future. What are your critical roles and not just senior roles which ones are critical roles that need to

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Tonushree Mondal: Take your business forward. What are the skills and what do you need to do with the others and thumbs up rescaling them. So I think it’s

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Tonushree Mondal: Maintaining a good line of sight on both the hard stuff shape, size of the organization skills, who comes back to work. The hierarchy.

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Tonushree Mondal: Then the softer side this continuous iteration and making sure mindsets and behaviors are realigning to make the tough calls to help the others deal with the tough calls that the left to continue

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Jonathan Kirschner: As you say, it just sparked, you know, people call this the great return. I mean,

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Jonathan Kirschner: What a returning to a playbook. That’s not it. I mean, there’s there’s elements for sure of the playbook that that are going to work, but this playbook needs to be

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Jonathan Kirschner: Revised

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Tonushree Mondal: You know, to give an example and that

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Tonushree Mondal: I had a client share with me in the past, whenever they used to do cost cutting and budget cutting it was very easy to just go to the bottom of the hierarchy and strip out a bunch of people, which is very normal to do

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Tonushree Mondal: Today that forget like that. Is that really right for your business model. It’s, it’s just going to be a rude, way to go about this whole thing. So it means

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Tonushree Mondal: Identifying critical roles at the bottom of your pyramid middle of your pyramid, but then taking out some of the senior level roles as well.

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Tonushree Mondal: And and really looking at this refresh. So in some ways it is very different when you’re looking at restructuring and identification of capabilities than anything in the best

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Jonathan Kirschner: Fascinating. I’m curious, Iris. Also, I mean, we have three former you know heads of talent on this call.

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Jonathan Kirschner: And iris. I’m just curious if you have any thoughts you’d want to add on how leaders can be you know optimal and strategic as they go through this transition period.

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Jonathan Kirschner: I think you’re on mute.

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Iris Nafshi: Sorry, yeah. Um, so I i was the head of leadership and executive development at Microsoft.

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Iris Nafshi: And we were spending a lot of time thinking about how each lead make decision in terms of complexity that was the highest level.

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Iris Nafshi: Kind of above complex and now the level, as I mentioned about complexity, which is cows and so I’m

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Iris Nafshi: Assuming we are transitioning from the chaos into complexity and complex right now. Here are some of the things that I’ve learned throughout my experience and that I saw healthy eaters and

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Iris Nafshi: I think that’s one of the things, who can we can help leaders as HR as coaches or if you’re on the call leaders is

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Iris Nafshi: shift a little bit the thinking from thinking about

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Iris Nafshi: vision and strategy that you set out for five depends on the industry that you are. It could be 18 months even technology and it could be 10 months in pharmaceutical, for example.

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Iris Nafshi: But whatever it is, that was your vision is to have to shift that into scenario planning and Jamie brought up before and then in Scenario planning, you probably want to think about three scenarios, at least they

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Iris Nafshi: Unlike. I mean, worst case scenario, if you will, the likely as best as you know today. And then the best case scenario for your business.

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Iris Nafshi: And based on those scenarios you want to do different strategies and set of decision making to pursue them so no longer you can set your eyes on one strategy and

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Iris Nafshi: Making it easier. It’s very different than you still need to shift if things are shifting in the world. But now you will need to shift to do planning into scenario planning and execution. That’s what’s shifting, most of the time.

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Iris Nafshi: And at the same time, say, let

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Iris Nafshi: Don’t forget about your purpose.

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Iris Nafshi: Some of the companies that we reading about and here today have shifted their current purpose into doing something else in the time of chaos, for example.

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Iris Nafshi: Only example you know Dyson as an example right now, instead of focusing on on creating what they are known to do that are building ventilation machines.

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Iris Nafshi: I like to do triathlons and Iron Man and many of the companies that are in the season. She’s not being all men races are likely to can’t be cancelled are producing

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Iris Nafshi: Closes and and that looks really nice. When you riding them and compete. They’re all producing you know what right now masks. They’re very still. Very cool. But that’s what they’re doing to kind of survive help the community and engage with a broader

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Iris Nafshi: Group of people and so

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Iris Nafshi: Once, once we move into complexity back up from the cocktails. You want to take the time to dust off the purpose, it might have been that your aperture just widen if before you look at your vision in one way, it might be a little bit bigger. And you might be producing more

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Iris Nafshi: Products than before. It might you want to serve a broader population base that before and it might be not. That would be a great opportunity to connect

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Iris Nafshi: And I mentioned Microsoft before I still am a big fan and following the CEO Satya Nadella and I was reading his email to the employees.

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Iris Nafshi: At towards the end of March, where he mentioned to the to all the employees that

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Iris Nafshi: Going back to the roots and remember what we are here for is outmoded for now. And I think for leaders for organizations to take that time to go back to the roots to the purpose more muted or six to eight would be very important because decision making will fall on that.

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Jonathan Kirschner: Yeah, I totally agree that purpose gives us the clarity that we need and you really do need to slow down and and breathe in order to access that right

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Iris Nafshi: Yeah.

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Iris Nafshi: Yeah, this crisis really offers organizations. There’s a lot of downside to what happening happening right now. But he offers also and you can’t

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Iris Nafshi: overlook that massive opportunity for innovation and learning. I know that there’s some organizations have been trying forever to move call centers from big location with employees coming in their everyday into

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Iris Nafshi: Virtual call centers. Well, guess what the on a Friday in a flip of a phone call and an email at all. Call centers in that one company.

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Iris Nafshi: With universities. I mean their entire model is changing. Think about at least in the US, how they’re charging from in state and out of state.

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Iris Nafshi: If they will have to go online, what their business model for explaining that they need to charge three times more for out of each state. So a lot of scenarios and to think about

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Iris Nafshi: And and prepare for

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Jonathan Kirschner: This it’s fascinating, you know, at some point, you know, we’re going to not hear about L curve you curve, the curve W like we’re gonna get to the other side and and

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Jonathan Kirschner: And that affords us an opportunity

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Jonathan Kirschner: To move beyond just adapting to really re authoring our existence, both our lifestyle and and the future of work and

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Jonathan Kirschner: Many ways as I think of it as like regeneration and it’s a it’s a great opportunity that emerges from, you know, from just tremendous, tremendous pain. I’m curious, you know, Jamie.

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Jonathan Kirschner: Since you sat in the hot seat as a CEO ice you have for CEOs.

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Jonathan Kirschner: And those, you know. Leading. Leading the organization.

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Jamie Ramsden: Yeah, yeah, I think as challenging as it is, you know, one of the things I say based on my experience to my clients is you have to disrupt your business before it gets disrupted for you.

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Jamie Ramsden: And disrupting it from the inside out, sometimes there’s a bold move right, it can take a lot of bold moves.

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Jamie Ramsden: So those of us who are like leadership geeks. This is a fascinating time for us right and sort of putting aside the human tragedy of this

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Jamie Ramsden: 30 million people unemployed. It’s a fascinating time for us to be able to practice what leadership is is a more intense time

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Jamie Ramsden: And we see the benefits and value of leadership now more acutely than than before. And so, you know, leadership model is about as a leader, you have to energize right you have to engage motivate inspire people and sometimes cajole and coerce

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Jamie Ramsden: In a gentle loving, caring way but you need to engage and energized. So being able to bring that energy as a leader is important. That’s number one.

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Jamie Ramsden: Number two is being able to communicate build a sense of trust reassure the folks that you work with that you can get through this. Right. It will be different. But, you know, there is an opportunity to come out the other side healthier right

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Jamie Ramsden: Scars but not broken, if you like, there is an opportunity and just staying open to that mindset because you won’t be able to take advantage of it, unless you think it’s possible.

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Jamie Ramsden: Being prepared for secondary sharks, the aftershocks. I think is really important. Engaging the team as early as possible and maintaining that community communication.

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Jamie Ramsden: There’s a sense, make a role that a leader has that’s true all the time. That’s simplifying it’s codifying

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Jamie Ramsden: It clarifying what’s happening and what the next steps are for the people that you engage with

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Jamie Ramsden: And if you can get that right, and keep your eyes open, there’s an opportunity to create the conditions for momentum coming out of this. It’s just that today. It’s just an opportunity, you cannot grow from a standing start. So you have to anticipate somehow

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Jamie Ramsden: You can’t wait until everything clears and then say, Okay, now we’re going to move forward. There has to be some sort of anticipation

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Jamie Ramsden: And in order to do that you have to be able to be both and get comfortable with ambiguity.

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Jamie Ramsden: And so I’m encouraging a lot of people to disrupt their business from the inside out and a really good example of that recently is an American organization on with with who, who were delivering a project in Australia, and they were forced because of covert to do it virtually

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Jamie Ramsden: And and delivered

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Jamie Ramsden: A similar if not better level of service to the client.

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Jamie Ramsden: But, but save millions of dollars of cost and they were able to share in that with their client. And so those are the type of opportunities that are out there today. Right.

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Jamie Ramsden: I think we’re seeing people looking at sort of real estate contracts. Is there a hybrid opportunity in terms of workforce, we’ve proven the concept works. We can work remotely.

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Jamie Ramsden: And that’s going to change the game. And so just getting people to think about their role. The team making sense of the world. And then if you get that right, you have the opportunity to shape the future.

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Tonushree Mondal: You know, Jamie. You say, an interesting thing on trust. So I’ve had several clients who have either had an opportunity to dust up their leadership competencies lean into them.

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Tonushree Mondal: Or really question of their true. And one of the things which comes up time and time again is this one on trust and this time.

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Tonushree Mondal: A lot of companies do have it and then it’s like, well, what is stress now because it’s severely going to get, you know, tested right on the one hand, you’re saying trust. Trust us as your employers. We got this.

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Tonushree Mondal: And then the next moment, if it means a harsh decision, but there are ways around it’s led to some very interesting debates discussions and clarification around what their leadership competencies are because you can still build that trust in the midst of this by being transparent.

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Tonushree Mondal: So I think the opportunity is the way it’s living out in leadership competencies etc is lending itself to more meaning more dialogue and clarification because now this has to be embedded slightly differently, going forward more into their ecosystem.

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Jonathan Kirschner: So interesting industry like I think about our thought leadership in the last

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Jonathan Kirschner: You know, four or five years, everybody’s talking about uka and agility and accelerating pace of business and it’s just going, going, going, it’s getting faster and faster and faster and faster. And then some level like the hamster wheel just broke

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Jonathan Kirschner: You know powers out and we now have this opportunity to

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Jonathan Kirschner: hit reset and to really step back and look, take the 20,000 foot view of how we’ve been working

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Jonathan Kirschner: And, you know, on this topic, you know, Jamie mentioned like leaders need to be bold and also really embrace and be comfortable with ambiguity. I’m curious, what are the new competencies, just to get a sense of your thinking like what new competencies, or mindsets.

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Jonathan Kirschner: Do we need to be adopting this period of regeneration before you and want to share to our participants, because we’re going to move to Q AMP a in a moment.

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Jonathan Kirschner: After this question, do type into the chat, any questions you may have. Based on on what you’re hearing so far but team. What do you, what are your thoughts on mindset and behaviors that

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Tonushree Mondal: Jamie, one of the first

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Jamie Ramsden: Yeah, so, you know, I think that we’re still in transition. Right. So I think it’s just acutely using the core competencies around leadership that has been tried and tried and tested through time.

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Jamie Ramsden: I think that now we have this opportunity just to come back to to new shoes point right even if there are tough decisions to be made, we can still do that with compassion.

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Jamie Ramsden: That is always an option. Right. So even the tough calls can be made transparently and with compassion. And I think that sort of exercising and leveraging that

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Jamie Ramsden: Through our decision making is something that will stand the test of time. I just think about Mark Cuban said that you know his warning to

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Jamie Ramsden: CEOs senior leaders of organizations is for the younger generation said how you treat your people today will be your brand for the next decade and Max kind of stuck with me. I think it’s a really important point.

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Deanna Senior: Yeah, I’ll jump in and add that I think it’s a really interesting moment. You know, we talk a lot about looking at your own strengths and what you do best. And I think what I see from

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Deanna Senior: My clients is that people are trying to bend into that which they believe their organization needs right now. And I think a competency, we can you know sort of stumble on is

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Deanna Senior: Who am I, and how is who am I best going to serve the situation. My team. My organization. My global workforce myself right now, rather than trying to bend and mold into being, you know, the most call it anything strategic leader compassionate leader empathetic leader and I go back to

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Deanna Senior: You know, sort of building your cabinet as a leader. One of my favorite HR articles is called in praise of the incomplete leader.

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Deanna Senior: And it’s all about sort of making

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Deanna Senior: Sure that you know what your attributes are you know what your assets are

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Deanna Senior: And you can make sure not to succumb to your liabilities by surrounding yourself with a cabinet of others. And I think the people who are successful. During this time, and the competencies that I hope they hold on to are realizing the importance of, you know, building up your

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Deanna Senior: arsenal of others around you and being communicative on a on a two way in a two way dialogue. I’m not going to say anything political about that just from an organizational perspective, build your cabinet and make it strong.

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Tonushree Mondal: And I would say, you know, it’s almost like going away from jargon.

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Tonushree Mondal: To the simple words right agility was getting overused before I think it’s just being nimble being human.

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Tonushree Mondal: You know, and really talking collaborating talking but the same time making decisions right decisions quickly and innovating, I think.

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Tonushree Mondal: At the end of the day, we can, you know, we, I think we were fancying upwards, a lot more before the end of the day, it boils down to this or you pick a number, are you really, really human. I am making decisions quickly and pivoting

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Jonathan Kirschner: I cannot wait to see some of the new competency framework that come out and and I can’t wait specifically to see the human as one of them.

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Iris Nafshi: here’s a, here’s a potential new mindset that we will add to the jargon of sense. You know, I, I’m hearing some companies, talking about the first respondent mindset.

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Iris Nafshi: Right. And again, it was in such as letter Microsoft CEO today employees.

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Iris Nafshi: Adopting a first responder mindset. What’s most important and either. I think this is me interpreting it is, how do I make sure that I first think the oxygen mask and put it on myself before I am able to save others that first responders have to take

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Iris Nafshi: Care of themselves before they get into the fire.

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Iris Nafshi: As firefighters, for example, or before they gave me to the hospital and save other people’s life. So I think that means something else that potentially futuristic but we will start seeing companies talking and teaching

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Iris Nafshi: leaders and employees about

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Jonathan Kirschner: Yeah, I mean, that’s a central tenant of emotional resilience, which is a topic we covered in our previous webinar.

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Jonathan Kirschner: Which is also available.

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Jonathan Kirschner: On our website. If you want to watch the recording. But yeah, if you don’t take care of yourself first, you’re not going to, you’re going to be depleted.

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Jonathan Kirschner: I recognize. I feel like we could talk for the next two days. This topic is fascinating. And yet we have some questions in the chat and Robin our chief customer officer. I’m going to turn it to you to

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Jonathan Kirschner: Cover a couple of questions and then we’ll go right back to our panelists for a very laser 60 seconds or less final statement and and that will conclude our call. So Robin, over to you.

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Robyn Garrett: Yeah. What a fantastic discussion we’re trying to get as many questions as we can. But there are some themes that have come up, one of which is how do you advise leaders.

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Robyn Garrett: You’re talking about. They need to be able to have a certain amount of energy, so that they can do all the new things that they need to do.

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Robyn Garrett: What do you advise they give up.

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Robyn Garrett: Or how do you advise they modify their leadership style or even their lifestyle so that they have that energy and they’re able to do what they need to do right now.

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Jonathan Kirschner: I can start with that.

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Jonathan Kirschner: I, you know, I’m scared of being bold and and really looking at everything through that lens I see meetings on my calendar and I’m like, you know, I don’t really think this meeting is a good use of my time.

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Jonathan Kirschner: And

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Jonathan Kirschner: And I’ll and I’ll ask even in regular

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Jonathan Kirschner: group meetings or departmental meetings like guys are we using the time effectively do we need this time as a meeting and I think there’s a lot of pruning that we can do just structurally because we get so used to certain ways of working

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Jonathan Kirschner: And this is really pressure testing that those. Yeah.

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Deanna Senior: It was amazing.

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Deanna Senior: It’s amazing how a crisis can clear calendar.

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Deanna Senior: And some

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Deanna Senior: How all of our clients and friends and family. They have found time for the things that are most important in their lives.

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Deanna Senior: And you can you can see if you look at you know I sort of glance sometimes at my clients calendars on zoom when they show them to me and like the number of coven meetings are, you know, it’s just at 90% of people’s days and you wonder what were we doing before coven struck right

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Deanna Senior: So, exactly. To your point, Jonathan, a crisis can clear a calendar and

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Deanna Senior: Looking at people are really focusing on the most important

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Deanna Senior: Aspects of their business model and disrupting to Jamie’s point before disrupting what was and trying to figure out, we used to make perfume. Now we’re going to make hand sanitizer. We used to you know make kitchen a friends. We’re going to make masks.

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Deanna Senior: To Iris this point. And so we’re all sort of needing to pivot and the only thing I would

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Deanna Senior: Add to that is we have to give up our striving for perfection.

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Deanna Senior: We have kids. We have pets walking into the room.

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Deanna Senior: We can’t get groceries. I mean, the whole world is turned upside down and that

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Deanna Senior: striving for perfection.

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Deanna Senior: And as I said before, where are, we’re not using the same complex statements and words were just being real. You’re in our home and we are you know connecting on a different level. So

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Tonushree Mondal: I think leaders can understand that there will be leniency to the same goals that existed pre call that. So what you thought was urgent may not be as urgent and you can push it back. I think they’re not testing the limits there um

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Jamie Ramsden: I think getting used to this idea. So I love this Diana’s point of that striving not striving for perfection. And so we normally phrase that in our work about being optimal those sort of good enough to get by.

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Jamie Ramsden: Because the energy that you see it’s multiplied by every meeting and I think you have to, as you’re if you’re letting people get on with the work that needs to be done in the short term, to be able to make it through this

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Jamie Ramsden: You have to let go of a little bit of what your expectations are about perfection. Getting comfortable with optimal as well as ambiguity.

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Robyn Garrett: Thank you so much. The other big theme that’s I’m seeing in these questions is all about inspiring your team.

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Robyn Garrett: And in particular, several people have mentioned that they’re finding it more difficult to know what’s going on individual team members and to

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Robyn Garrett: Be that inspiring force in this remote context. So what advice do you have or how you can both stay in touch and be inspiring and motivate people to do all the things they need to do right now.

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Iris Nafshi: I have to take that at the

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Iris Nafshi: End here.

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Iris Nafshi: Oh, one of the things that a lot of leaders are probably doing naturally is sending an email asking it could be for the entire department or team or the entire organization and that’s great. But that’s not enough.

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Iris Nafshi: I Emily’s a start.

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Iris Nafshi: And and just like you have a compensation discussion and motivate discussion with the

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Iris Nafshi: Reason you know that for one, it could be relocation and for another through the money and a third. It could be a working on a cross functional project, you know, I need to dive in as a leader to understand each person’s situation and sometimes you won’t know sometimes

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Iris Nafshi: Prefer to go on in their house and personal life and not

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Iris Nafshi: Share all of it. And so I would say

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Iris Nafshi: Best the pursuant wanting to know everything about your team and just knowing just enough to to sense what’s going on. And then we before about slowing down and getting to know yourself, I would say.

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Iris Nafshi: stay authentic to who you are. But then explore new things you haven’t done before. One of the things I enjoyed reading in Korn ferry briefing for the leadership and coffee. There were talking about the leader in an organization. She was be a

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Iris Nafshi: Leader in the sales organization, driven by numbers and agenda and very serious and nowadays they uncle, she started

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Iris Nafshi: Has a funny object behind her and she doesn’t even address it and it could be the most ridiculous things and it just makes the team chill and

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Iris Nafshi: Relax and see a different side of her. So I would say just like we’re asking their organization to expand and look sideways and look at an angle.

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Iris Nafshi: Try yourself with your leadership, what are you comfortable with and doing differently the tendon before one of the people I’m coaching told me that the Friday, it’s rotating responsibility.

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Iris Nafshi: Person leads for 10 minutes a physical activity and if you are in bed with other zoom. It’s absolutely fine to

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Iris Nafshi: Get off the video and just do it on your own for 10 minutes, there’s music that they choose and their exercise together before the

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Iris Nafshi: As part of the call, I should say. So my, what I would like to leave with us. Just have fun expand to to know your team and yourself in other ways, then the face to face. Little serious shirts and I taught her

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Tonushree Mondal: And and if I can add to that, I think it’s, you know, this catabolic energy and negative energy or on everything going on. Then there’s anabolic energy in the positive or they’re trying to

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Tonushree Mondal: Keep it positive for everybody. I think it’s important to recognize both need to exist and just saying it’s all going to be anabolic on a call isn’t

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Tonushree Mondal: Normal today. So think of even when you get on zoom calls with your friends. You could take up the entire 60 hours talking about garbage and feeling depressed, at the end of it or

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Tonushree Mondal: You can say, okay, we’ll talk 10 minutes about covered and then let’s talk about the good stuff. So I think it’s

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Tonushree Mondal: The leaders, allowing that vulnerable space for a little bit of the negativity in order to then move quickly and say, okay, now the rest of the 80% we’re going to all move forward, because I think

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Tonushree Mondal: Saying being blind to that isn’t possible. You have to acknowledge it’s just how much airspace. Does it take up is the question.

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Jonathan Kirschner: Thank you, Tina. Shoot, you know, we have just five minutes left on the webinar and we’ve covered a whole lot of ground and I’m curious from our panelists. Any final thoughts that you feel comfortable bottom lining in under a minute.

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Jonathan Kirschner: Maybe we could start with Jamie

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Jamie Ramsden: Yeah, so again come back to my theme. This is a marathon, not a sprint to train accordingly. Okay yourself accordingly. Bring the results that you need.

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Jamie Ramsden: And I think we’re sharing your team.

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Jamie Ramsden: Your organization, your clients that we can get through this. Right. It will take a team effort.

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Jamie Ramsden: It doesn’t necessarily require inspirational leadership at every interaction.

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Jamie Ramsden: Sometimes it’s just practical and tactical we’re going to make our way through this is going to take some hard work and I think that making sure the leader has access to reserve that they’re going to need for the long haul. It’s probably the best advice I can give today.

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Jonathan Kirschner: Thanks, Jamie.

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Jonathan Kirschner: Deanna I’ll turn it to you.

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Deanna Senior: Sure, I’ve been

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Deanna Senior: I’ve, I’ve seen the most amazing colorful conversations YouTube videos and means of late that I’ve seen in my life. And maybe I just wasn’t

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Deanna Senior: privy to the good stuff. But now I am and the most amazing one that I read that just sticks with me goes like this. You’re watching people go through withdrawal from the emotional addiction to the myth of certainty.

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Deanna Senior: And the way that we’re all navigating that is unique and individual to each of us. So, you know, back to the question of what can leaders do to connect with their teams just actively listen

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Deanna Senior: To the unique situation that that person is experiencing just because they have kids, doesn’t mean they’re miserable, just because they, you know, have

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Deanna Senior: Up there, they’re not able to get to work doesn’t mean that

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Deanna Senior: You know they’re they’re unhappy or happy about that. It’s really like the unique experience of that individual person.

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Deanna Senior: Is what’s going to make a difference. And I think is what they’re going to hold on to. As far as the way you made them feel during this period.

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Jonathan Kirschner: I love that. Thank you. Deanna Iris over you and under one minute, final thoughts.

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Iris Nafshi: I would say I would say that, more than ever, leaders are being asked. In addition to act decisively and slow down working ambiguity. But, you know, find the fact

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Iris Nafshi: That ever we’re telling them to do and not the same time there’s another thing that they will need to do, which is to

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Iris Nafshi: Give room to all the emotions of themselves and other to coexist. So for some people. This is a really hard time because they lost someone because they cannot work with a spouse and noise at home.

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Iris Nafshi: Because they’re better working, face to face, and they’re really said, and it’s okay and usually leaders are

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Iris Nafshi: Actually that wants to move forward and okay let’s look at the half last fall, and what can we do about that.

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Iris Nafshi: Sometimes you can’t do anything about that. You just have to let it be. And it’s okay to feel sad and it’s okay, also to have other people at the staff members.

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Iris Nafshi: That are happy about it because they get to see their spouse and children every day for the last six weeks. So to be able to hold all those emotions is a big ask, but I think it would be really important to

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Iris Nafshi: Cognitively be aware and in your heart open the space to allow for all those contradicting emotions within yourself.

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Iris Nafshi: And within your team to exist me. It’s okay. I saw someone walking with a shirt, T shirt. You say, I’m fine. It’s fine. Everything is fine. Just keep saying it to yourself. I’m fine. It’s fine. Everything is fine.

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Jonathan Kirschner: Thank you. That’s, that’s fantastic to ministry.

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Jonathan Kirschner: It’s on your mind.

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Um,

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Tonushree Mondal: I think we have to acknowledge that we have to learn to live with it now.

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Tonushree Mondal: The measuring scale got

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Tonushree Mondal: Shifted and think of how much the measuring scale got shifted for the young 30 something year old. The went in on a Friday and it’s not alive on a Tuesday the measuring scale shifted for that family, the measuring scale I shifted

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Tonushree Mondal: And it’s not coming back to that we’re normal we need two months ago for a while. So in this HOLDING THAT IS NOT FORGET ABOUT GRATITUDE gratitude for everything that we have

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Tonushree Mondal: And then just moving on with the new normal. The best weekend. I think I’ve been kind to oneself. I think that’s that’s important.

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Jonathan Kirschner: Thank you to the Sri

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Jonathan Kirschner: Well, thank you, team for an incredible an incredible webinar. And we’ve surface some amazing insights

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Jonathan Kirschner: For you on this call, there will be a recording shared by email and want to thank you for your excellent questions. Your attention and engagement.

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Jonathan Kirschner: And you know, we at air consulting, we have our, you know, three, three competencies that we’ve, you know, we have our company. We have a specific set right now.

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Jonathan Kirschner: Which is be real. Be strong and be generous. And so I want to offer that to everyone on this call and we will get through this together. Thank you all very much for your time and wishing everyone wellness safety and health.